Discussion:
US Tax burden
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#BeamMeUpScotty
2018-02-02 18:34:30 UTC
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{snip}
In case you haven't figured it out by now, and to save you further
musings, you keep offering up definitions of "general welfare" without
providing a *PROCESS* for determining whether those definitions should
be adopted. Try focusing instead on a *legal process* for determining
whether your preferred definition should be adopted.
I'm not concerned if something is "legal' or not.
In which case you shouldn't have said, "Of course it [The Constitution]
says the general welfare of the United State, not the welfare of
parasites" since what the Constitution says is a legal question.
You say I shouldn't say what the Constitution says, do you?
No. I'm saying we are debating the scope of the general welfare clause
in Article I, Section 8, but you keep getting off track by saying that
some spending is bad policy.
But at any rate, even if Congress were to decide the scope of the
Welfare clause, it would Constitutionally have hold to the standard of
benefiting the country rather than just individuals.
Why not look at the enumerated powers of art 1 sec 8 as those things that make up 'the general welfare'? Why would the founders list a set of enumerated powers only to have it really mean nothing when it can be overrun with 'the general welfare'?
And the Qualifier in the sentence is that last part where it says
"GENERAL WELFARE *OF THE UNITED STATES* "


["""""""Article I
Section 8. The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes,
Duties, Imposts and Excises, *to pay the Debts and* provide for the
common Defence and *general Welfare of the United States* ; but all
Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United
States;""""""""]

The qualifier is "of the United States" that means that you must define
the United States. Why would they allow for Congress to pay debts for
the States or the people? They don't they only authorize the Congress to
spend taxes to pay debts and see to the general welfare "of the UNITED
STATES".

And a place where that is explained post Article 1 Section 8 is
Amendment 10 where it describes what is *NOT* the "United States".

And what is NOT the United States are the STATES or the PEOPLE.
Amendment 10 clearly tells you that any power NOT delegated to the
United States belongs with the States or the people. SO they are
separate entities or there would be no separation of powers when they
are delegated.

["""""""""Amendment X
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor
prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively,
or to the people."""""""""""]

Which means that the United States is NOT the same as the States or the
people so the welfare of the States or the people are NOT being
delegated as a power of the Congress to spend tax dollars on States or
on the people. They can only spend Federal tax dollars on the Federal
welfare. That would also apply to Federal Military meaning that "Common
defense" does NOT include spending on NATO..... Or giving individual
States money for their own defense (since it says common defense) and
creating 50 different State paramilitaries because when the United
States needs the State military they become United States Military NOT
50 separate U.S. military forces.

Where it says United States it means that the several States and
individual people don't count. It's common or "all equal" or NONE.

E pluribus unum
Latin phrase, "out of many, one"

E pluribus unum—Latin for "Out of many, one" (alternatively translated
as "One out of many" or "One from many") — is a 13-letter traditional
motto of the United States of America, appearing on the...

The Congress giving money to the individual states or the individual
people is against even the motto of the "United States" and is NOT a
delegated power in the constitution.


The only question is whether spending in the 16th amendment allows for
spending without enumeration, on items where no power is delegated? And
that answer should be no. They have the power to tax from any source but
NOT to spend on anything. The power to spend is limited by delegated
powers enumerated in the Constitution.

They first have to have the power to spend before they can do it without
enumeration. To allow absolute power to spend is as careless as
allowing "general welfare" would be if it were to be superior to all
other clauses and amendments in the Constitution.

And there is no delegated power to spend money to pay debts or welfare
of the States or the people.
--
That's Karma


It's going to be a "three dog night" for Liberals. It's cold and dark
in their utopia of hate.
benj
2018-02-02 19:36:20 UTC
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On 2/2/2018 1:34 PM, #BeamMeUpScotty wrote:
.
Post by #BeamMeUpScotty
E pluribus unum
Latin phrase, "out of many, one"
E pluribus unum—Latin for "Out of many, one" (alternatively translated
as "One out of many" or "One from many") — is a 13-letter traditional
motto of the United States of America, appearing on the...
"United States national motto. The modern motto of the United States of
America, as established in a 1956 law signed by President Dwight D.
Eisenhower, is "In God We Trust". The phrase first appeared on U.S.
coins in 1864."

The "Traditional motto" is actually the title of the great seal of the
United States.

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