Discussion:
Review, the spirit molecule.
(too old to reply)
D
2024-05-09 10:16:44 UTC
Permalink
Dear alt.philosophers,

As you all know there's been an awful lot of talking about transcendence,
but perhaps not so much concrete and specific stuff.

I thought I'd rectify that by watching the documentary The Spirit Molecule
yesterday evening, which explores the uses of DMT.

The documentary was incomprehensible and mostly consisted of people
talking about their trips. ;)

But... it does raise some interesting speculations. Is the brain just an
antenna receiving its order from somewhere else? Do extra-dimensional
beings exist? Does DMT remove all "screens" and filters from our conscious
minds enabling us to experience the "raw" radio traffic of the universe as
it really is? Since our brains are not created to receive that, the result
is very weird trips when the brain tries to make sense of what it
receives.

Of course no proof what so ever, but still fun to think about the ideas
and theories they propose.

And for those of you who prefer more down to earth magic, I recommend the
documentary Deceptive Practice which is about the legendary card magician
Ricky Jay.

Enjoy! =)
oldernow
2024-05-09 13:44:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by D
As you all know there's been an awful lot of talking
about transcendence, but perhaps not so much concrete and
specific stuff.
That's because a key aspect of transcendence is realizing
that what we tell ourselves is "concrete and specific
stuff" is actually a seeming field of purely conceptual
notions whose discrimination - i.e. setting each apart
from each other in varying degrees of relationship - is
nothing but thoughts of instances of "stuff" accompanied
by the belief that they - and the self believed to be
apprehending/knowing them - are not merely thoughts, but
"concrete and specific stuff".
Post by D
I thought I'd rectify that by watching the documentary The
Spirit Molecule yesterday evening, which explores the uses
of DMT.
It's unlikely even more words can rectify anything but
word inconsistencies (and, even then, that depends on
whose conceptuality context (aka mind) you ask...),
but I'm listening.
Post by D
The documentary was incomprehensible and mostly consisted
of people talking about their trips. ;)
*Talking*? You mean it was nothing but words? And here
I thought you were going to be bringing us "concrete and
specific stuff"!
Post by D
But... it does raise some interesting speculations. Is the
brain just an antenna receiving its order from somewhere
else? Do extra-dimensional beings exist? Does DMT remove
all "screens" and filters from our conscious minds enabling
us to experience the "raw" radio traffic of the universe as
it really is? Since our brains are not created to receive
that, the result is very weird trips when the brain tries
to make sense of what it receives.
Of course no proof what so ever, but still fun to think
about the ideas and theories they propose.
I know! Let's create a drinking game around it so it can
be even more fun!
Post by D
And for those of you who prefer more down to earth magic,
I recommend the documentary Deceptive Practice which is
about the legendary card magician Ricky Jay.
Enjoy! =)
I'm too afraid it'll tell me how the magic works, thereby
transforming it from glorious *magic* to just more words?
--
oldernow
xyz001 at nym.hush.com
D
2024-05-09 19:57:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by oldernow
Post by D
I thought I'd rectify that by watching the documentary The
Spirit Molecule yesterday evening, which explores the uses
of DMT.
It's unlikely even more words can rectify anything but
word inconsistencies (and, even then, that depends on
whose conceptuality context (aka mind) you ask...),
but I'm listening.
No, I think you're missing the message here... why not take your daily
dose of DMT? Transcendence in a box! ;)
Post by oldernow
Post by D
The documentary was incomprehensible and mostly consisted
of people talking about their trips. ;)
*Talking*? You mean it was nothing but words? And here
I thought you were going to be bringing us "concrete and
specific stuff"!
Well, they did have psychedelic patterns here and there.
Post by oldernow
Post by D
But... it does raise some interesting speculations. Is the
brain just an antenna receiving its order from somewhere
else? Do extra-dimensional beings exist? Does DMT remove
all "screens" and filters from our conscious minds enabling
us to experience the "raw" radio traffic of the universe as
it really is? Since our brains are not created to receive
that, the result is very weird trips when the brain tries
to make sense of what it receives.
Of course no proof what so ever, but still fun to think
about the ideas and theories they propose.
I know! Let's create a drinking game around it so it can
be even more fun!
Amen!
Post by oldernow
Post by D
And for those of you who prefer more down to earth magic,
I recommend the documentary Deceptive Practice which is
about the legendary card magician Ricky Jay.
Enjoy! =)
I'm too afraid it'll tell me how the magic works, thereby
transforming it from glorious *magic* to just more words?
Not a chance! Even knowing it is just card tricks, his level of control is
absolutely amazing! He can also teach you how to throw cards for self
defense (he kills rubber ducks in one show)!
oldernow
2024-05-09 21:30:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by D
No, I think you're missing the message here... why not
take your daily dose of DMT? Transcendence in a box! ;)
Because transcendence is free: no dose required. Awareness
turned around upon its seeming source works every time.
Post by D
Post by oldernow
Post by D
And for those of you who prefer more down to earth magic,
I recommend the documentary Deceptive Practice which is
about the legendary card magician Ricky Jay.
Enjoy! =)
I'm too afraid it'll tell me how the magic works, thereby
transforming it from glorious *magic* to just more words?
Not a chance! Even knowing it is just card tricks, his
level of control is absolutely amazing! He can also teach
you how to throw cards for self defense (he kills rubber
ducks in one show)!
That sounds waaaaaaaay better then DMT - unless the acronym
stands for Duck Magic Transcendence, of course....
--
oldernow
xyz001 at nym.hush.com
D
2024-05-10 09:18:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by oldernow
Post by D
No, I think you're missing the message here... why not
take your daily dose of DMT? Transcendence in a box! ;)
Because transcendence is free: no dose required. Awareness
turned around upon its seeming source works every time.
True... but in todays world of instant gratification, what would be the
most likely? People spending time and effort reaching T by their own
means, or, buying McT and getting it in doses of 15 minutes with zero
effort?

Actually, I read an article a year ago, about some pirate place in a
basement out side Stockholm where a woman sold McT for therapeutic
purposes, illegally.

And I always think about if the people just get hooked on the experience,
and thereby disregard, _what the experience is leading to_.

I think the buddha warned against psychic powers, healing and stuff,
calling it a distraction from the end goal of enlightenment. Sometimes I
wonder if buddha wouldn't warn against getting hooked on McT as well?
Post by oldernow
Post by D
Post by oldernow
Post by D
And for those of you who prefer more down to earth magic,
I recommend the documentary Deceptive Practice which is
about the legendary card magician Ricky Jay.
Enjoy! =)
I'm too afraid it'll tell me how the magic works, thereby
transforming it from glorious *magic* to just more words?
Not a chance! Even knowing it is just card tricks, his
level of control is absolutely amazing! He can also teach
you how to throw cards for self defense (he kills rubber
ducks in one show)!
That sounds waaaaaaaay better then DMT - unless the acronym
stands for Duck Magic Transcendence, of course....
Horses for courses, but I agree! =)
oldernow
2024-05-10 13:10:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by D
Post by oldernow
Post by D
No, I think you're missing the message here... why not
take your daily dose of DMT? Transcendence in a box! ;)
Because transcendence is free: no dose required. Awareness
turned around upon its seeming source works every time.
True... but
True *but*? Doesn't the latter word at least somewhat
nullify the former? How can there be any "buts" about
truth?
Post by D
in todays world of instant gratification, what would be
the most likely? People spending time and effort reaching
T by their own means, or, buying McT and getting it in
doses of 15 minutes with zero effort?
I would say because, in my experience, chemically induced
states seem more a deepening of delusion than what is
available when considering mind content more a dream than,
not merely *a* reality, but Reality.

Believing one is a body with a brain is *already* fairly
deep conceptual/representational stupefication.

And we double (triple? N+1-ple?) talk the fuck out of
it. We speak of the representational aspect of the brain
as some amazing thing, but then conveniently forget/ignore
the representational part and consider the representation
TO BE THE REALITY. So the brain seems to generate a mind
that that can represent/model the brain... but what's
primary/fundamental in that scenario. Looks super circular
to me. I could just as easily say mind is a hallucination
that includes a hallucinated brain that... that... (words
failing again) has a mind... so... does the mind have a
(representational) brain "object" (representation) in
it, or does the brain have a mind that can somehow reach
outside of itself and... and what? Model... "know"... a
real brain? But how could that which apprehends apprehend
its basis / itself?

All I can think (haha) is you pick one model, consider it
The Reality, and stick to it. Serious attempts at trying
to "get to the bottom of it" seem to necessarily lead
to this madness being represented in this attempt to put
"it" (double quotes indicate not being sure "it" is some
reality, or a model...) in words.
Post by D
Actually, I read an article a year ago, about some pirate
place in a basement out side Stockholm where a woman sold
McT for therapeutic purposes, illegally.
And I always think about if the people just get hooked on
the experience, and thereby disregard, _what the experience
is leading to_.
I think the buddha warned against psychic powers, healing
and stuff, calling it a distraction from the end goal of
enlightenment. Sometimes I wonder if buddha wouldn't warn
against getting hooked on McT as well?
Well, okay... I should have read further. In other words,
*EXACTLY*. Except that the "getting hooked on" part is
incidental. The part about distraction was what I meant by
"deepening of delusion".
--
oldernow
xyz001 at nym.hush.com
D
2024-05-10 20:45:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by oldernow
Post by D
Post by oldernow
Because transcendence is free: no dose required. Awareness
turned around upon its seeming source works every time.
True... but
True *but*? Doesn't the latter word at least somewhat
nullify the former? How can there be any "buts" about
truth?
Beats me! ;)
Post by oldernow
All I can think (haha) is you pick one model, consider it
The Reality, and stick to it. Serious attempts at trying
to "get to the bottom of it" seem to necessarily lead
to this madness being represented in this attempt to put
"it" (double quotes indicate not being sure "it" is some
reality, or a model...) in words.
Well, all models are not equal. There is one model, par excellence, that
seems to tower above all others, and that is the one where there
actually is an external reality, that can serve as common ground for
truth, which can be communicated with language and investigated by
science.

No one in 2500 years has been able to credibly disprove that model.
Post by oldernow
Post by D
Actually, I read an article a year ago, about some pirate
place in a basement out side Stockholm where a woman sold
McT for therapeutic purposes, illegally.
And I always think about if the people just get hooked on
the experience, and thereby disregard, _what the experience
is leading to_.
I think the buddha warned against psychic powers, healing
and stuff, calling it a distraction from the end goal of
enlightenment. Sometimes I wonder if buddha wouldn't warn
against getting hooked on McT as well?
Well, okay... I should have read further. In other words,
*EXACTLY*. Except that the "getting hooked on" part is
incidental. The part about distraction was what I meant by
"deepening of delusion".
Got it! =) I think trying to convince others that there is no external
world also counts as a distraction. ;)
oldernow
2024-05-11 00:05:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by D
Post by oldernow
Post by D
True... but
True *but*? Doesn't the latter word at least somewhat
nullify the former? How can there be any "buts" about
truth?
Beats me! ;)
Well, then, next time I need to beat you, I'll be sure to
type the words "true but" in succession!
Post by D
Post by oldernow
All I can think (haha) is you pick one model, consider it
The Reality, and stick to it. Serious attempts at trying
to "get to the bottom of it" seem to necessarily lead
to this madness being represented in this attempt to put
"it" (double quotes indicate not being sure "it" is some
reality, or a model...) in words.
Well, all models are not equal. There is one model, par
excellence, that seems to tower above all others, and that
is the one where there actually is an external reality,
that can serve as common ground for truth, which can be
communicated with language and investigated by science.
No one in 2500 years has been able to credibly disprove
that model.
Modeldolatry. Got it. <foreshadowing winky>
Post by D
Post by oldernow
Post by D
Actually, I read an article a year ago, about some pirate
place in a basement out side Stockholm where a woman sold
McT for therapeutic purposes, illegally.
And I always think about if the people just get hooked on
the experience, and thereby disregard, _what the experience
is leading to_.
I think the buddha warned against psychic powers, healing
and stuff, calling it a distraction from the end goal of
enlightenment. Sometimes I wonder if buddha wouldn't warn
against getting hooked on McT as well?
Well, okay... I should have read further. In other words,
*EXACTLY*. Except that the "getting hooked on" part is
incidental. The part about distraction was what I meant by
"deepening of delusion".
Got it! =) I think trying to convince others that there
is no external world also counts as a distraction. ;)
"I"'m on a complicated trip, dude ;-) in that one of
the "others" in my model of reality speaks as though a
free-willed being fully convinced of an external world,
which "I" considers a sort of nagging pebble in the sock of
a shoe'd foot attempting to re-convince me of the reality
of an external world, primarily because "I" has yet to let
go of "i" (see also: <real name>), i.e. the model of "I"
(aka ineffability). It's just this weird game, and it's
played with re-presentation atoms usually referred to as
"words".

In other words, "I" have no idea why "you" insisted we go
back to the topic of transcendence again.... ;-)
--
oldernow
xyz001 at nym.hush.com
D
2024-05-11 19:22:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by oldernow
Post by D
Post by oldernow
Post by D
True... but
True *but*? Doesn't the latter word at least somewhat
nullify the former? How can there be any "buts" about
truth?
Beats me! ;)
Well, then, next time I need to beat you, I'll be sure to
type the words "true but" in succession!
Touché! Is that how you win in ping pong as well? ;)
Post by oldernow
Post by D
Post by oldernow
All I can think (haha) is you pick one model, consider it
The Reality, and stick to it. Serious attempts at trying
to "get to the bottom of it" seem to necessarily lead
to this madness being represented in this attempt to put
"it" (double quotes indicate not being sure "it" is some
reality, or a model...) in words.
Well, all models are not equal. There is one model, par
excellence, that seems to tower above all others, and that
is the one where there actually is an external reality,
that can serve as common ground for truth, which can be
communicated with language and investigated by science.
No one in 2500 years has been able to credibly disprove
that model.
Modeldolatry. Got it. <foreshadowing winky>
Might I interest the gentleman in a 9 oz steak of golden calf? ;)
Post by oldernow
Post by D
Post by oldernow
Well, okay... I should have read further. In other words,
*EXACTLY*. Except that the "getting hooked on" part is
incidental. The part about distraction was what I meant by
"deepening of delusion".
Got it! =) I think trying to convince others that there
is no external world also counts as a distraction. ;)
"I"'m on a complicated trip, dude ;-) in that one of
the "others" in my model of reality speaks as though a
free-willed being fully convinced of an external world,
which "I" considers a sort of nagging pebble in the sock of
a shoe'd foot attempting to re-convince me of the reality
of an external world, primarily because "I" has yet to let
go of "i" (see also: <real name>), i.e. the model of "I"
(aka ineffability). It's just this weird game, and it's
played with re-presentation atoms usually referred to as
"words".
Tsss.... game?! This is deadly reality!
Post by oldernow
In other words, "I" have no idea why "you" insisted we go
back to the topic of transcendence again.... ;-)
I'm a masochist! That must be the answer.
oldernow
2024-05-11 22:39:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by oldernow
Post by D
Post by oldernow
Post by D
True... but
True *but*? Doesn't the latter word at least somewhat
nullify the former? How can there be any "buts" about
truth?
Beats me! ;)
Well, then, next time I need to beat you, I'll be sure to
type the words "true but" in succession!
Touch?! Is that how you win in ping pong as well? ;)
Spin. In case you haven't noticed, I'm above average
at *spin*.
Post by oldernow
Post by D
Well, all models are not equal. There is one model, par
excellence, that seems to tower above all others, and that
is the one where there actually is an external reality,
that can serve as common ground for truth, which can be
communicated with language and investigated by science.
No one in 2500 years has been able to credibly disprove
that model.
Modeldolatry. Got it. <foreshadowing winky>
Might I interest the gentleman in a 9 oz steak of golden
calf? ;)
Absolutely. I'll bring the tossed gaylord salad!
--
oldernow
xyz001 at nym.hush.com
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